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Posts: 52
Jul 11 07 7:59 AM
Quote:Because sometimes it is better not to have to defend yourself.
Quote:Everyone fights, no-one quits -- Starship troopers
Senior Member
Posts: 2468
Jul 11 07 8:40 AM
Quote:It is a matter of playing god, isnt it.
Quote:From a personal point of view, an individual with a gun has much more of a chance against someone without a gun.
Quote:There are enough guns in the US for every single person to have one, but only about a third of people do actually have guns. How many people have carry and conceal licenses? Probably not a large percentage.
Posts: 1144
Jul 12 07 2:28 AM
Quote:I'm pretty sure that you would defend yourself or a loved one. That is a natural response. Let me tell you about situations like this and why people do or do not defend themselves.
Quote:So unless your a complete invalid or pu$$y, you will fight back. So don't give me that crap.
Jul 12 07 2:32 AM
Quote:No it isn't so stop bringing it up all the time! It's not playing god, it's deciding that YOU don't want to be a victim of violent crime who very well might just be killed after being brutally victimized!
Quote:You can either be strong, or you can be weak. And if you decide to leave your life in the hands of somebody that doesn't care about the laws, then you've decided to be weak.
Quote:And a person with a gun has much more of a chance against someone else with a gun than they would have without a gun.
Quote:And what exactly is your damn point!?
Quote:Well of course it's better if you don't have to be in a situation where you have to defend yourself
Quote: but that's rarely the case, because a lot of times we're FORCED into a position where we HAVE to defend ourselves because we very well might die if we do nothing but sit there and take it!
Quote:That is the cold hard truth, that is the way life works. You either accept is as reality, or you deny it and die as a result of your own stupidity. You have no other options.
Jul 12 07 8:07 AM
Quote:But i have not had to. I probably would defend myself, but hopefully i never will have to.
Quote:That is not what i said, i am saying that i dont have to, because the situations where a person needs to defend themselves in the UK and europe in general are much lower than in the US.Take our crime rates and compare them, you get a similar story, some are slightly higher, some are slightly lower. What we are missing though are all those supposed DGUs which are not reported, about 2 million of them apparently.I know how to look after myself, i know how to avoid dangerous situations, i lived in the US and never got myself into trouble, nor in europe. SOmetimes it is a matter of being aware of your surroundings and all that, but also in europe there is just less of a chance of anything happening.
Posts: 227
Jul 12 07 11:44 PM
Quote:The Missing Link:Even if that's the case, they have a much higher crime rate. You might be less likely to die over there, but you face a much higher chance of being the victim of a violent crime even though nobody has guns.
Jul 13 07 6:06 AM
Quote:I know you would. If your live or the life of someone you love was in danger, I know you would defend yourself.
Quote:But the thing that does still kill me is the non-self-defense outlook that Brady, Push and other groups have. Non-violence is a great thing but you cannot negotiate your way out of being raped, or if someone desires to harm you, there is no negotiation; and at that time you may have to put rounds down range.
Jul 13 07 5:26 PM
Quote:That is not what i said, i am saying that i dont have to, because the situations where a person needs to defend themselves in the UK and europe in general are much lower than in the US.
Quote:Take our crime rates and compare them, you get a similar story, some are slightly higher, some are slightly lower. What we are missing though are all those supposed DGUs which are not reported, about 2 million of them apparently.
Quote:And i have decided that, that is why i dont live in the USA. In the US you are more likely to be attacked than in the UK.
Quote:Or you can decide not to be attacked in the first place. I dont need to show if i am weak or strong, i just dont want to be attacked.
Quote:Of course, but then what is your point to this statement?
Quote:That not everyone wants a gun, so there are more guns in society, and those who do not want a gun are much more at risk than if they were in the UK.
Quote:YOu have the choice to prevent crime before it happens. That is why in europe there is often less crime.
Quote:Like you I haven't had to defend myself or a loved one either and I have lived in DC, Chicago, NYC and Miami.
Quote:So you say there is more violent crime but less people are dying. That must be because victims of crime in the UK are better at defending themselves against violent crime.
Quote:And they don't have guns so you just shot down your argument about needing guns for self defense.
Quote:Of course i would do what i thought best in the situation, but that does not change the fact that i can look at the whole thing from a wider perspective.
Quote:Of course you cant, and i am not against self defence, carry and conceal or any of these things. What i am against are gun owners turning around and saying that they have nothing to do with criminals getting guns.
Quote:It may not be something direct, but certainly by not wanting laws to be changed to make it harder for criminals to get guns, then they are passively participating.
Posts: 1330
Jul 13 07 8:34 PM
Moderator
Quote:By law criminals are absolutely and unquestionably forbidden from owning guns. By law any criminal found in possession of even one single ammunition round HAS to go back to prison for another five years. You can't get harder than that without using the death penalty.
Jul 14 07 2:19 AM
Quote:And in Africa you're far more likely to be attacked. What's your point?
Quote:You don't get that option, that decision isn't available. The decision of whether or not you're attacked is in the hands of the criminal.
Quote:You have a better chance of actually living if you've been attacked and you have a gun in your possession for your own defense.
Quote:How many of the two thirds are underaged? How many are poor and can't afford to spend $500 on a gun? How many live in areas where they CAN'T own a gun?
Quote:You do NOT have that choice! You as an individual have no choice in playing any part in preventing crime before it happens, beacuse that option is impossible on the individual level!
Quote:Yeah well I HAVE had to defend myself, multiple times. I've had to defend myself with a gun before on several occasions. And if I didn't have it I'd be DEAD!
Quote:You aren't legally allowed to defend yourself in the UK.
Quote:I've already torn down your cohort Gilligan regarding Japan as not being a developed nation but rather a communist nation. I can disembowel you just as easily, but it wouldn't do any good because you never read any of my posts.
Quote:WE DON'T! There's no proof supporting that we're contributing to criminals; at least not those of us that actually abide by the laws.
Jul 14 07 7:35 PM
Quote:Third world countries etc, its all about seeing things for what they are. I am comparing first world countries because once you get into other issues it makes it hard to see what is going on.
Quote:However the point is, in america with guns you are more likely to be attacked and more likely to need a gun and the chances of losing are just as great as in europe, though the chances of losing your life are much greater.
Quote:Except for the fact that we have a law which allows us to defend ourselves you mean?? You know you are talking rubbish, you just try and wind people up.
Quote:You are talking about proof? Im amazed. Actually there is, there are more guns in the US for a reason,
Quote:criminals get guns more easily because there are more of them.
Quote:I mean, when criminals can buy guns from legal sources, you know there is something wrong.
Jul 14 07 9:27 PM
Quote:I've provided plenty of evidence to the contrary in the past.
Quote:You're not a first world country. Japan is not a first world country. Australia is not a first world country.
Quote:Yeah, it's called the Second Amendment
Jul 16 07 1:08 AM
Quote:The black market isn't a legal source.
Jul 17 07 5:15 AM
Quote:if the website was working i would show you exactly where. About 50% of all guns obtained by criminals come from LEGAL sources. The other 50% were at one point in their life in a legal state, and many of them became illegal because of weak laws.
Jul 17 07 5:58 AM
Quote:And the FBI study I presented to you numerous times
Quote:showed that criminals don't get their guns from legal sources.
Quote:The majority come from illegal sources like street transactions, theft and the black market.
Quote:And why don't you explain just exactly what "weak laws" you're talking about? Why don't we cut through all this garbage and get down to the details of what's at issue here?
Jul 17 07 2:08 PM
Quote:street transactions
Jul 17 07 2:18 PM
Quote:Since when are street transactions illegal?
Jul 18 07 5:29 AM
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